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Well, I did three comics this week. On the "glass is half full" side, that's three times as many as I did last week.

I have a cold, and I think Logan is suffering from the same Virus. He's got a runny nose. I hope his throat doesn't hurt as much as mine does.

I did something rather embarrassing and troubling this week. I entered into a discussion on the topic of the drug war, and I gave in to the impulse to return a personal attack in kind and then some. I directed some derogatory and belittling comments to a 23 year-old engineering student at the UW. I had no interest in changing his views. I was just venting at him and his attitude. This all took place in someone else's LiveJournal, and I stopped when I realized that I was posting things there that I would never post in my own journal.

Last night Lara told me that when she asks herself whether or not she really wants to have sex with women (that's not how she phrased it, but I would just distract myself by repeating her exact words) the answer is yes, but she doesn't know why she can't bring herself to trust me. She fears that I'll dump her for a woman whose body doesn't bear the marks of childbirth.

Anyone who's read her journal knows she's going through a very tough time, and I'm certainly happy to put the three-way agenda on the shelf for the foreseeable future. Still, she knows that I've nursed this fascination for years in collaboration with some rather remarkable women and that it won't disappear completely with the wave of a hand. Some of the people on my LiveJournal friends list bother her. She takes their presence there as proof that I'm returning to my old "pussy hound" modus operandi.

For my own part, I'm finding it awkward trying to communicate with openly sexual women without slipping into my familiar flirtatious/seductive mode. In a couple instances I think I've come off sounding terse or even rude and dismissive with people because I didn't really know what to say that wouldn't seem like a "move," so I said very little.

Today, I consulted the Tarot on the topic of the three-way agenda and Lara's fears. The results, as usual, seemed uncanny. I used the Secret of the High Priestess pattern.


I drew the following cards using the Thoth deck:

Card: Position/meaning

1) 2 of disks - Love: Central theme
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2) The Empress: Augments or counters the central theme
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3) 5 of disks - Worry: Current dominant influence
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4) Prince of wands: Waning influence
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5) 10 of disks - Wealth: Waxing influence
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6) 5 of cups - Disappointment: Darkness; unconsciously appreciated or feared
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7) Fortune: Light; consciously appreciated or valued
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8) 2 of disks - Change: The result
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9) The Lovers: Secret of the High Priestess

In every previous reading using this pattern, I had never drawn a trump for the final card. The High Priestess revealed her secret to me for the first time today. Normally, I think a Tarot reading should have a single author, but Lara and I worked on this one together. We certainly have a shared stake in the topic. Since we've already made it a collaborative reading, I welcome the insights of other Tarot aficionados.

Comments

( 20 comments — Leave a comment )
venusflytrap
Jun. 2nd, 2001 02:18 am (UTC)
The Ignorant One..
Whats the deal with Tarot cards?
mamalara
Jun. 2nd, 2001 11:49 am (UTC)
Re: The Ignorant One..
So far, I've worked exclusively with the Thoth Tarot, so I don't know if this holds true of all or even most decks, but the Thoth has so much mythological and archetypical symbolism packed into it that laying down a pattern of cards presents a web of ideas that the creative monkey brain can't help but find relevance in.

Also, the visual nature of the cards appeals to the right brain and prompts an all-at-once gestalt sort of perception that can jimmy one's thoughts out of the tight and sometimes unworkable patterns and closed loops we can think ourselves into when we let the one-at-a-time left brain rule our cognitive processes.

kmo
Jun. 2nd, 2001 12:00 pm (UTC)
Re: The Ignorant One..
Whoops. Even though Lara's lovely image graces the response to your question, Venus, I wrote the words.
venusflytrap
Jun. 2nd, 2001 12:46 pm (UTC)
Re: The Ignorant One..
Well, the only people I have known who possess Tarot cards are collectors. I cannot accept that future can be foretold because thats just me, the skeptic.

I did a web search on Tarot cards after your LJ reading. The way I got it, the reader sees symbolism in deciphering the future as they want it to be. By unbridling imagination, maybe the subconscious gets a say in matters or even directs the course to the future than just being silent?

Pretty pictures!! Maybe I will design a set with a theme.
kmo
Jun. 2nd, 2001 01:38 pm (UTC)
Re: The Ignorant One..
In answer to the question:

How is that the cards can give us a meaningful answer?



The authors of the Tarot reference book that Lara and I use have this to say:

Our unconscious has a different relationship to time and space than our consciousness. It is in the position of looking beyond the horizons of the present, as everyone has experienced in dreaming about the future and by foreseeing what is about to happen. The language of consciousness is words, in contrast to the images that are the language of unconsciousness. The Tarot cards are the alphabet of the metaphorical language of our soul. With them, our unconscious can express how it sees the matter in question. The only thing that our consciousness must do is learn to understand the metaphorical language of the unconscious.

[emphasis mine]

This seems to jive with both my explanation and the one you found that operates within the confines of your belief system.

aubreystar
Jun. 2nd, 2001 08:04 am (UTC)
my tarot has collected quite a large amount of dust. I go through periods where I'm not focused enough to get any true meaning out of it, just jarbled info. My friend Joe is the true master, but, alas, he's moved to Dallas (freaking freaking frickin freak), so... *sigh*
kmo
Jun. 2nd, 2001 12:05 pm (UTC)
Tarot Master Joe
Hi Aubrey,

Sounds like Joe did more for you than read the Tarot. Bummer that he's gone.

On a happier note, my 6 month-old son, Logan, stared with seeming delight and fascination at your animated icon. Very cute.
aubreystar
Jun. 2nd, 2001 02:33 pm (UTC)
Re: Tarot Master Joe
lol - you are quite welcome at keeping the offspring entertained :D I'm glad he liked my little Gatomon icon!
venusflytrap
Jun. 2nd, 2001 02:39 pm (UTC)
Three way or no way?
I just posted in mamalara's LJ. Question for you: Why does it have to be three way?

Let me tell you how it worked out for us. I have been married for 8 years now and known my husband for years before that. My husband, who is a much older man than I am (and not really 'old'..a few years older than you..but you would have seen ancient to me at one point in time as well), and I engaged in all sorts of experimentation and three way does not work. It is difficult to get by with the mental acceptance even before you can deal with the reality of physical intimacy. This occurs mostly because two of the three are already involved in an intimate relationship and the third will always feel left out. It just doesnt vibe well. We found that both of us are tuned in to a different frequency than any other stranger who will be involved. It can be as frustrating as awkwardness can be or it can be mirthful as being out of sych in a slap stick comedic kind of way. But it wasnt 'sexy'. It was stifling, posed and there was a lot of concern about not 'rubbing the other the wrong way' - hence stressful. Not going into the details, but in the short time we pondered over it , we found out that playing out fantasises, one on one, with some other than the s.o was much more fulfilling because its complete and gives us an element of control. We found out that 3-way doesnt work for us. Good luck.
kmo
Jun. 2nd, 2001 10:01 pm (UTC)
Re: Three way or no way?
Thank you, Venus. Thank you for the perspective.

I've experienced threeways with 4 combinations of women. 80-90% of those experiences were with one pair. I was living in Japan with my then-fiancee, Valerie, and we hooked up with Aya. Aya, while in her 20's, was a virgin when we met. Her first sexual encounter was with a couple. Can you imagine? As was her second, and her third, and... well, it went on for a while.

Unlike your experiences, it was definitely sexy. Valerie found being with a girl so exciting she sometimes came just from Aya giving her a quick kiss when polite heads were turned. But, yes, it did get ugly.

We pretended that we had an equal three-way partnership, but really, Valerie and I were the couple, and Aya the attachment. Aya didn't like that. She presented her ultimatum; I had to choose.

I chose Valerie.

Aya disappeared for months, but I guess she got horny, because she just showed up at our appartment one day and things picked up where they left off.

I'll skip the Valerie and Yumi portion of the epic tale even though I love to remember it, and go right to the Cherry/Mari one-off. I was the outsider that night. Cherry and Mari had been friends for a while, and things were going down hill between me and Cherry. Mari was into Cherry and tolerated my presence only because things wouldn't have happened otherwise. Yeah, that wasn't much fun.

That night was like the vindictive genni granting the letter of my wish while totally proving that you can get what you want and still not enjoy it. Two beautiful, bisexual Asian-American women, we're all on e, and it sucked. I felt like a gate-crasher, and Mari was the only one of the three of us to get off, at least durring the three-way segment of the evening. After Mari went to sleep, Cherry and I snuck off to the bathroom and fucked on the sink.

Skip ahead to Lara and Roni. It's our second encounter with Roni. The first one, months earlier started out fun but ended badly. For this second encounter Lara was 5 months pregnant. Roni said she looked like Venus.

We had the perfect three-way understanding, the perfect three-way energy, and everybody came. Ask Lara how many times she came in the car as we drove home that night.

That was the best threeway experience I ever had, and that night stands as the new bench mark. Roni tells us that she loves us both, and I believe her. She's in her 40's and not a threat to Lara in the way that my typical Asian fantasy nymphet poses a very credible threat.

Anyway, I won't go on and on. My point here is not to brag; just to demonstrate that, while the three-way campaign can be a real mine field, it can and sometimes does work.

In answer to your question, yes, right now it does have to be a three-way or no-way (or more accurately a marital two-way). I can't imagine a sexual experience with another woman without Lara that could possibly be worth enduring the feeling of coming back to our home, where Lara and Logan are waiting, after having had extra-marital sex. That would be a nightmare for me.

Also, the whole point of the three-way is to come as close as I can to experiencing sex play between women. A plain old outside fling would pack all the heartache and none of what appeals to me in the three-way.




venusflytrap
Jun. 3rd, 2001 12:08 am (UTC)
Re: Three way or no way?
I have to say that Mari/Cherry narration was hilarious, even though it might not have seemed that way to you. Sorry, couldnt help it. Aya, the virgin? A virgin's got to rock. You *are* lucky that you found the three way synchronisation with Lara and Roni.

My experiences have definitely been different. I would probably attribute your good luck to the fact that there were asian women involved who contrary to popular misconception are not subservient and more than a tad better than western women wrt sexual hang ups. Am I wrong in that assumption?

Also, I am not into women (unless she is so stunning in mind and body that she blows me away..NEVER happened, so the encounters were not fun for me)which makes things a whole lot different. Now you are going to be dealing with two men who want to compete each other, but do not really relish the game and they do not want to accept it. Let me tell you, it will not pretty. I like men when they act like boys. The grown up act is tiresome.

To be honest, women make me nervous. Even though we share a common chromosome, I cannot understand women. The women whom I have encountered are needy and soon it becomes a competition about who is the more important one. Of course, it is a futile game when the other two are tuned in on a different level. Frustration shows up and things get ugly. It happens in very subtle ways and I'd rather not deal with it. Too time consuming and requires work that has no rewards.

This was a good weekend chat, although I think my mom would have died from shock if she read this...which makes it worth my while to get her a LiveJournal account. (I am only kidding! I love my mom.)
kmo
Jun. 3rd, 2001 01:59 am (UTC)
"Asian" women
[VenusFlyTrap]"I would probably attribute your good luck to the fact that there were asian women involved who contrary to popular misconception are not subservient and more than a tad better than western women wrt sexual hang ups. Am I wrong in that assumption?"

Tricky question. You say "asian women" but that's not a very cohesive catagory in terms of sexual hang ups.

Cherry and Mari are both Asian-American, i.e. raised in the States with pretty much the same cultural/media brain-washing we all get. They differ from each other in that Cherry's parents came from South Korea and Mari's from Japan. Lots of Christians in South Korea; very few in Japan.

Cherry's mother used to scold her for masterbating and told her that she would deform herself and that no man would want her. Yuck.

Mari's mom was an artist and way cool. Her daughter was pretty much a party-girl slut, but they had a tight mother/daughter relationship. Take from that what you will.

In my experience, Japanese people tend to be pretty non-religious until someone in the family dies and they have to figure out all the ins and outs of a Buddhist funeral. They don't get anti-sex religious programming, but they generally don't get any kind of sexual information at all. Most young Japanese women that I met were pretty much blank slates sexually. They had all the hormones and normal responses, but no experience, no clue, and, as you say, no particular hang-ups.

Yumi was Japanese, but she was about as atypical as they come. Lots of prior experience, and she told me the night that we met that she liked girls (though she hadn't found anyone with whom to scratch that itch by that point. She later flew to the States to hook up with me and Valerie for a week).

Aya, also Japanese, was more "typical" sexually, i.e. biologically rearing to go but clueless as to what that meant, but she seemed more adventurous than most people, I think.











Yumi and Valerie

venusflytrap
Jun. 3rd, 2001 03:57 am (UTC)
Re:
Aya is prettier to me.

About the mastrubation and scolding...my dear friend, believe it. I had a shrink(!!) who told me that it was wrong to mastrubate. I KID YOU NOT! This was after a very intriguing and confusing encounter with a girl friend of mine in school. I must have been 16 and I had begun packing my bags to hell soon after I turned 11. Needless to say, I have never had a trip to a shrink or spoken to my girl friend since then.

On a completely different topic, have you ever wondered when and how girls learn to mastrubate? It came so naturally to me. I have asked men and boys. I can understand how natural it must be for boys to find their 'way home'. It is utterly amazing and mind blowing to ponder on how a girl, who dont measure the depth of their vaginas after softball practice, discovers mastrubation. I am so tempted to write a book about the 'first mastrubation session', but it would probably be deemed illegal...lol
kmo
Jun. 4th, 2001 02:01 pm (UTC)
Experts and Girls Who Masterbate
A shrink told you that it's wrong to masterbate, eh?

Sounds like pretty typical expert advice.


An expert is someone who articulates the needs of those in power.
-Henry Kissinger


As for girl masterbation, Lara can tell you, it's one of my favorite topics. After much introspection on the topic, I still haven't pinned down exactly why I enjoy watching two women, kiss, caress, fondle, and explore each other, but whatever it is, I get the same kind of charge watching a woman masterbate.

Sometimes I feel like a bit of a casanova fraud. Women tell me how great I am in bed, and I think to myself, "Why? All I did was kiss your neck, watch you masterbate, give you encouragement, and then fuck you a little bit there at the end."

I guess it just goes to demonstrate the value of delegating.

Seriously though, if you want to talk about female masterbation, know that you'll have an appreciative audience of at least one. We can continue the thread here, or start a new one.

venusflytrap
Jun. 4th, 2001 03:12 pm (UTC)
Re: Experts and Girls Who Masterbate
My mother threatened to sue my husband for statutory rape and misdirection of a minor if I was not a virgin on my 18th birthday. (I wasnt, but thats not something we can discuss) I had a maid who followed me everywhere I went and she would wait for me outside his house to escort me home. So there was a lot of mutual mastrubation until I asked my mother to back off and gave her an ultimatum.

Mastrubation is more honest and personal than sex. Even watching someone mastrubate is more fun than sex. I like the female body and occasionally the female mind. I just dont like to interact with women one-on-one.

I find it hard to stomach certain depictions of female mastrubation. I dont scream. I moan and whimper. I am not 'spent'. I become powerful. The use of a dildo is simulated penetration, not real mastrubation in my books. It's a lame excuse. An insult. A violation. On a different note, I have to say that I find dildos ugly and revolting. The sparkly ones with glitter on them have to DIE! Where have all the fingers gone? But you got to admit, a vibrator that can fit in the palm of your hand is better than any number of skilled fingers.

Mastrubation has become a studied behaviour which is sad. Girls are not girls but shadows of the expectations of world. I do not remember anyone mentioning mastrubation to me. I do not remember discussing it with anyone. I havent felt guilt over mastrubation. Not at any point in my life.

After all these years, what blows my mind is the answer to the question of how the finger found its mark. The answer, of course, is unknown. I was not a horny teen. Most of my friends were boys and they taught me how to climb trees and took me hiking. They were my 'brothers' and part of my family. So, mastrubation to me was not about soothing an itch. It was about finding myself and connecting with my 'inner being'(if there is such a thing). I dont know if that makes any sense at all, but its true! I promise.
mamalara
Jun. 5th, 2001 08:41 am (UTC)
Re: Experts and Girls Who Masturbate
Okay, time to jump in! I am 27, and must first confess that regular masturbation is a pretty new thing for me.

The first time I tried, I was about 16, and had snuck into my older brother's room to look at his porn mags. I read an account in there from a woman about her first time masturbating in the bathtub, and decided to try it. In the bath next morning, I slipped a finger inside my vagina (as described in the mag), and while it felt naughty and interesting, it wasn't very sexually stimulating. I was nowhere near my clitoris, and really didn't know much about it or what to do with it.

I figured it out in my early 20's in college (I don't recall exactly when or how), but still didn't masturbate regularly until I met Kevin. I was terribly shy and quite sexually inexperienced when we started our affair (at age 25), and it took him a while to get me to open up and relax, and play with my pussy under his loving, enthusiastic direction. Once I got started, though, I couldn't stop. An average day of sex for us involved 5 to 10 orgasms for me, usually half of them achieved as I masturbated with abandon while he watched, kissed, and cuddled.

I also started masturbating solo at around this time, and like you Venus, don't have the typical porn-style response---it makes me feel very powerful and energized (not spent), loved, content, and sensuous. I do it to scratch the itch sometimes, sure, but more often for a pick-me-up, an affirmation of how I can enjoy my body and myself. Cheaper than a new outfit, less fattening than ice cream. :)

I was masturbating with ferocious regularity near the end of my pregnancy, hoping to jump-start labor as orgasm and the subsequent hormonal release of oxytocin is supposed to help. Also, my orgasms while pregnant were more intense and powerful---one of pregnancy's few perks.

While the intensity of my orgasms has since decreased, it's still a habit I have no intention of kicking.

I've never tried a vibrator.
venusflytrap
Jun. 5th, 2001 03:41 pm (UTC)
Re: Experts and Girls Who Masturbate
I began at 11 and I just HAD to know my body. There was a lot of curiosity. It was a journey of self discovery. Oh boy..was it a HUGE surprise when I had the first orgasm!

Insertion is not rare or uncommon as a means of female mastrubation. Clitoral stimulation is the most common technique of mastrubation because its nothing but a bundle of nerves. The sole function of the clitoris is to give you an orgasm..after another..after another...Even to this day, clitoral orgasms are the most powerful for me. Vaginal orgasms are rare and few in between. They pale in comparison to a clitoral orgasm. Although, I have heard that some women have very powerful vaginal orgasms. Some women even have orgasms when their breasts are stimulated.

I tell you, woman...porn mags are a conspiracy!! They are the bane of sexuality!

Vibrators are really really nice. It takes exactly 2 minutes or less for me to have an orgasm. I have to rest longer than the actual time it takes to come to start again. You have all sorts of crap being sold in different shapes and sizes(mostly unrealistic phallic shapes)at the stores. I suggest sticking to the smallest one with 'no frills attached'. My favourite store is the Hustler store in L.A. Mostly because it is L.A(I love L.A at night) and it is open until the wee hours...and right in the middle of downtown too. I am sure there is a hustler store online.

Then, when I moved to San Francisco, I heard about this museum
[Error: Irreparable invalid markup ('<a [...] "http://www.goodvibes.com">') in entry. Owner must fix manually. Raw contents below.]

I began at 11 and I just HAD to know my body. There was a lot of curiosity. It was a journey of self discovery. Oh boy..was it a HUGE surprise when I had the first orgasm!

Insertion is not rare or uncommon as a means of female mastrubation. Clitoral stimulation is the most common technique of mastrubation because its nothing but a bundle of nerves. The sole function of the clitoris is to give you an orgasm..after another..after another...Even to this day, clitoral orgasms are the most powerful for me. Vaginal orgasms are rare and few in between. They pale in comparison to a clitoral orgasm. Although, I have heard that some women have very powerful vaginal orgasms. Some women even have orgasms when their breasts are stimulated.

I tell you, woman...porn mags are a conspiracy!! They are the bane of sexuality!

Vibrators are really really nice. It takes exactly 2 minutes or less for me to have an orgasm. I have to rest longer than the actual time it takes to come to start again. You have all sorts of crap being sold in different shapes and sizes(mostly unrealistic phallic shapes)at the stores. I suggest sticking to the smallest one with 'no frills attached'. My favourite store is the Hustler store in L.A. Mostly because it is L.A(I love L.A at night) and it is open until the wee hours...and right in the middle of downtown too. I am sure there is a hustler store online.

Then, when I moved to San Francisco, I heard about this museum<a href "http://www.goodvibes.com"> place </a>. The website also sells some good vibrators and relevant info. My personal favourite is the pocket rocket. Always has been and always will be. I cannot be hassled by 'innovations'. I suggest you avoid anything made from the material called 'cyberskin'. It is awful, stinks and is too soft.

But the best..the very BEST is the 'Hitachi Magic Wand' under electric vibrators.

Intensity of orgasms might have something to do with childbirth? I am not sure about it tho, never been pregnant or had a child. But there is a product called kegelmaster which strengthens vaginal muscles. You are doing your kegel exercises, arent you?
kmo
Jun. 5th, 2001 01:46 pm (UTC)
Re: Experts and Girls Who Masterbate
I'm with you on the dildo/vibrator issue. I've enjoyed playing with one with girlfriends, but strictly for external use. It's fun for me to sit back in a clear-headed (mostly) non-sexual physical state and make a woman come by playing a vibrator over her clitoris, but once it goes inside I find it a pretty boring experience.

The bit about the maid following you around to make sure your cherry survived until your 18th birthday struck me as utterly surreal. I hope you do write that book.
venusflytrap
Jun. 5th, 2001 04:38 pm (UTC)
Re: Experts and Girls Who Masterbate
Phallic shaped vibrators are toys and just toys. They serve no purpose at all. All you need in a vibrator is a couple of batteries and a nubby tip.

Surreal? Looking back now, thats similar to what I feel now. It was very very real then. When I was in college(this was just before I got married), the nun who was the HOD called my mother and blasted her for getting me married off so soon. She could do that and get away with it because she also taught my mother. She was a regular witch. The same old prune taught two generations of women. How surreal is that?!? I think she hated me.
peregrinegray
Jul. 23rd, 2001 02:39 pm (UTC)
Re: Three way or no way?
I'm new to LiveJournal, sorry to break in, but it's an interesting topic and I felt compelled to comment.

I've been in what's called a poly relationship for around 5 years, with two women. Both live with me, one is the mother of my child, the other is the soon-to-be mother of my next child. It's a "triangle" rather than a "V", in that we are all involved with and in love with each other, as opposed to two people being involved with one.

It hasn't been particularly easy (though what long-term relationship is?), but I do have to say that it works out fairly well, all things considered. It's certainly more difficult than a conventional 2-person monogamous relationship, which makes sense, considering that generally when something is more complicated there is more opportunity for problems.

So sure, it would be easier to simplify things down to a 1-on-1 relationship, but the way I see it, being in love with two people instead of one necessitates a little extra complexity. I don't see the abandonment of someone I love as an option. And luckily for me, that issue hasn't been brought up in this matter, since my loves love each other. Though there have been situations where it couldn't be a "triangle"... in some it was okay for it to be a "V", in others a choice was sadly necessary.

In any case, I've never experienced a problem with physically being "out of sync" or getting unpleasantly tangled up. Maybe it's because we're all musicians, sense of rhythm and all that... *smile*

Slainte.
Peregrine-Tselem

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