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257: Intelligence and Ferocity


KMO welcomes author and blogger, Dave Pollard to the program to talk about transition. Dave thinks that industrial civilization is facing likely collapse, but he remains optimistic about the prospect of making a graceful transition to something more sustainable and humane. KMO plays Doomer's advocate. Early in the program, Tara Holste describes the heavy-handed tactics that the FDA employed against a group of families that have forged an alliance with a Pennsylvania farmer to provide fresh milk and dairy products to people who prefer them to the pasteurized, homogenized products of the commodity food industry. 

Music by Dave Leaky courtesy of Conscious Sounds


( 6 comments — Leave a comment )
May. 12th, 2011 07:40 pm (UTC)
On agribusiness
Just to shine a light on what I think is a libertarian blind-spot: the plutocrats are entering into a voluntary relationship and pursuing their interests, as are the small farmers and their associates who want to consume the raw milk.
May. 13th, 2011 01:47 am (UTC)
Re: On agribusiness
If you think corporations and the ownership class achieved their dominant status via voluntary relationships, watch Food, inc.

May. 13th, 2011 02:28 am (UTC)
Re: On agribusiness
Regarding the plutocrats, I'm referring to voluntary relationships *with themselves* against the rest of us. The agribusiness wing of the plutocracy pursues their interests and the raw milk consumers pursue theirs as well. Both are in conflict. What benefits the former group detracts from the later, and vise versa. It's a political struggle.
May. 13th, 2011 02:02 pm (UTC)
Re: On agribusiness
You had mentioned libertarianism in your first comment, so I took you to be making some point about libertarianism. Coercive relationships are anathema to libertarian principles.

Just because you can find some instance of voluntary cooperation in an oppressive system doesn't make that system an exemplar of libertarian principles. It seems really bizarre that you would need that very obvious point spelled out for you, so I'll assume that you were attempting to articulate something more substantial than that spurious surface association with your first comment.

If you want to craft some new entry in this thread, I would encourage you to compose it but not post it. Then, you can re-visit it in a few hours and see if it really does what you want it to do.

I loathe the ideological mindset of left/right debate, and I want to minimize the amount of time I devote to that sort of thing. It is for this reason that I will only read one communication from you daily. Anything that you post here today I will read and possibly respond to tomorrow, so take your time with it, and don't be in a hurry to click "Post Comment."
May. 13th, 2011 05:35 pm (UTC)
Re: On agribusiness
It's something I think you and your guest on this episode refuse to acknowledge.

Government in this capitalist world is a tool to maintain the privileges of the wealthy elite, no matter what it’s pundits proclaim. It’s the tool by which the capitalist elite began back in England with land enclosures on peasants. And it’s the tool by which they maintain their privileges over the rest of us to this day. Central Command is not, and cannot be, concerned with the survival of the rest of us. In that it’s not “corrupt” or a “failure.” It’s working just as it’s supposed to.

May. 14th, 2011 02:45 pm (UTC)
Re: On agribusiness
Brace yourself.

I agree with everything you wrote in that last comment. (At least in the longer paragraph. Your first sentence is off. In the interview, I articulated something similar to what you've written, and Dave described that position as cynical.)

Edited at 2011-05-14 02:49 pm (UTC)
( 6 comments — Leave a comment )

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